Stranger than Fiction

yay! loved the writeup :)

Also, no need to credit me - all I did was square off the image so I could size it down to 100x100, then saved it as a PNG to avoid further losses from resaving as jpg.

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/9198483/img/9198483.png

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Yay! Thank you so much. :D

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Your comments are hilarious!!!! :D :D

Great pool - I clicked everything apart from 'Walt is totally lying about quitting'.

I think he's bored. Walt likes danger, he likes living on edge. However, everything runs smoothly now. Like you said - he has partners that are perfectly compatible with his way of thinking, no (apparent) enemies, he's making more money that he can spend... but he's bored. Jesse always had a way to mess things up and make their business more complicated and interesting for Walt (in a way, Jesse often drives the plot. Most of the BB storyline move along because of something Jesse does. No wonder when he's out of the picture, the meth 'empire' run smoothly... but it's a total bore. You need a music montage to make it interesting!). You know what? I think he's going to enjoy having another challenge with Hank knowing who he is.

Heisenberg just wants to give you love and money, Jesse! And Jesse (understandably) has a nervous breakdown. Man. I could not love this relationship more.

Me neither. Gosh, it's so unhealthy and toxic but it only takes one little bit of sincere affection from Walt toward Jesse and it's all... awwwwwww. For once, Walt is being sincere but he's been played so often that he sees an ulterior motive. He really thought Walt was there to kill him?? Oh, poor Jesse. He has no idea how important he is to Walt. I think they played that scene brilliantly by showing the gun *after* Walt's departure.

This is going to be sooo good. Gale gets his revenge! Through poetry!!

FRAK YES!!! It's so perfect. Go Gale!!!!

And finally...Hank knows!!! Hank knows, bitches! And Walt doesn't know that Hank knows! Even better.

Isn't that sweet?? Heisenberg was always one step ahead of Hank because he had all the knowledge. Now it's Hank who has that upper hand. Problem is - he's got no proof! Walter quit, Jesse quit, the money is being laundered. It's going to be very hard for Hank to prove that Walt is Heisenberg.

And on a final note, you got to love this show for being so... literal sometimes. I love them.

Edited Date: 2012-09-03 11:51 pm (UTC)

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Oh, and if can somewhat influence you next choice of entertainment, here's a scene from Fringe (no spoilers, really). Please notice the background music. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jk8u7tHI2k

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Ha! Fringe! And their Walter is an insane genius crackpot who has no social graces whatsoever. :P

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Do you watch? It's really worth it.

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Seen Season 1. I get squicked easily by the stuff in Fringe so I've been working up the nerve to get through the other seasons.

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Jesse always had a way to mess things up and make their business more complicated and interesting for Walt

Remember our car metaphor conversation? Well, I think they made it canon that Jesse IS the RV. He's scruffy, battered and unimpressive on the surface, he's unreliable, he can explode or break down at any moment, he causes Walt endless problems, etc. But Walt kept the RV just like he kept Jesse as his partner. It's irrational for Walt - the ultimate rationalizer - but caring about Jesse is one of the last glimmers of his humanity.

I guess Hank doesn't have any proof. There's Gale's handwriting but that's rather flimsy. Knowing how dangerous Walt is (ie, ten guys dead in two minutes) I doubt Hank would try to take him down unless he had a solid case against him. I'm sure Hank is going to reflect over the last year and realize the links with Jesse. But Hank can't approach Jesse either because Saul would sue him over the beating. Maybe Hank will get something from Lydia? But yeah, this is going to be a tough case. Especially since catching Heisenberg would destroy Hank's career and family life. Man.

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readishmael.livejournal.com

I loved Walt's fond, sad little smile when he saw Jesse hide the bong from him. Just accepting and a little nostalgic at the reminder of an earlier incarnation of his partner. It was the most genuinely compassionate and affectionate I've seen him behave toward Jesse in longer than I can precisely remember. But what now for Jesse, now that he has the money? Does he no longer feel like he needs to be afraid? If so, does he feel guilty for being afraid in the first place? Does this act by Walt, which seems to be a genuine attempt at closure and making peace between them, end up drawing Jesse back in and destroying him as things start to fall apart?

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what now for Jesse, now that he has the money? Does he no longer feel like he needs to be afraid? If so, does he feel guilty for being afraid in the first place?

I don't know if the money will change anything. Jesse already had bags full of money from working for Gus and from the early Vamanos drug deals. He could've sold his house for a huge profit and fled somewhere far away from Walt. I don't know if it's as simple as Jesse just being terrified of Walt coming to kill him. Jesse is acting like a traumatized soldier who's home from the war but now he's afraid to step outside his house and he never feels safe. Aaron Paul said something interesting about how Jesse had grown used to Walt being his protector. So when Walt shut him out ("there is no WE"), I think Jesse felt a lot more vulnerable in the world. Walt said back in 5.2 that as long as they stuck together then it'd save their lives. It was purposeful manipulation to get Jesse feeling like his very survival depended on his loyalty to Walt.

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This episode left me full of anxiety, especially the last scenes with Jesse, Skylar and the family. Those were were more tragic and tense than the 9 prison murders! From a show that had airplanes fall from the sky, I kept waiting for something terrible like that to happen. And it did in a quiet, mundane, awkward moment. All season I have been rooting against Walt. I want everyone else to win/survive/get what they want, but now I realize he has damned them all. There is no escape. For example, now that Hank knows, my lingering fear is that at best he will lose his career for not catching Walt sooner, and worse be suspected as being a silent partner. Even if either of those things don't happen, he can't feel any triumph at catching Walt, only ridicule for being a cuckhold for so long. Maybe he can fine some peace in being a surrogate dad to Walt jr. and Holly, though even under the best circumstances, the would be complicated. Anyway, this excellent episode drove home at how awful any denouement is going to be for everyone.

I too hope for more Jesse next year, even though I fear only tragedy of varying depths lies in wait.

Oh, did you think Jesse knows about Mike or the 9 prison murders?

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Mike, no.

The nine (ten)? Yes. Jesse got it second-hand from Saul, who must have had his ear to the grapevine and confirmed Walt was behind it.

Even if not, he probably watches TV and catches the news.

Edited Date: 2012-09-04 04:27 am (UTC)

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I think Villigan said in an interview that it was his intention to fill the viewers with dread by NOT having any obvious danger or chaos in the final scene. Until Hank needs the toilet that is.

he has damned them all. There is no escape. For example, now that Hank knows, my lingering fear is that at best he will lose his career for not catching Walt sooner, and worse be suspected as being a silent partner.

Worse than that. Walt's drug money paid for Hank's medical bills. Catching Heisenberg has been Hank's Moby Dick obsession for so long and now if he succeeds - Hank's career will be ruined, his family life will be ruined, he'll be facing financial ruin, etc. It's not just Walt he'd be catching. He'd likely be dooming Skyler, his wife's sister, to serious jail time too. Will Junior still see Hank as a surrogate dad if he puts both his real parents behind bars?

Saul told Jesse that Walt was behind the prison murders (it was all over the news too). Jesse may have suspicions about what really happened to Mike but he doesn't know for sure. Pretty creepy though that Jesse was standing right next to the car that had Mike's body in the trunk.

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Once he alerts the DEA to Walt, I definitely Hank will be under investigation and possibly be found guilty by proxy. Who will believe that the DEA brother-in-law was not helping Walt cover his tracks all along? I bet they will think he even had a cut of the money, hence the medical bills. For all we know it may look like his shooting/attack on Jesse was because he was always part of Heisenberg's empire, not actively seeking to capture him. I could see Walt trying to blackmail Hank with this to buy his silence, but I can't see Hank falling for that, even if it means his own doom. The whale can't win!

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I definitely Hank will be under investigation and possibly be found guilty by proxy. Who will believe that the DEA brother-in-law was not helping Walt cover his tracks all along?

You know what else might come out of an investigation on Hank? That Hank's spent years covering up for his wife's shoplifting problem. Please let Marie's kleptomania serve a plot purpose in the end!

I think Hank will do the right thing too, even if he has to doom himself. The whole point of the 'One Minute' episode where Hank was going to face the consequences for assaulting Jesse was that Hank respects his job so much that he has to do it right.

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I know! Poor Marie and Hank and everyone!

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frenchani.livejournal.com

You know, I just wish that, even if they are never reunited after this farewell scene, Jesse will realise before the end of the show that Mr White did love him like a son.

ETA: As for your poll, all the options but the last one. Even Gilligan said that Walt is not lying.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/09/04/breaking-bad-finale-interview/

Edited Date: 2012-09-04 06:01 pm (UTC)

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Like you mentioned in your wonderful Fly recap: the moment that Walt might have expressed his father feelings towards Jesse was the same night that he let the girl that Jesse loved choke to death on her own vomit. And then left Jesse to wake up next to her corpse. I think Walt's love for Jesse is rather epic. Like blow up Tucos lair, kill two guys with his car, buy a machine gun (maybe) kind of epic. But Walt's betrayals of Jesse are epic too. How can Jesse feel loved by a man who has done so much damage to him? And he doesn't even know the worst of it...

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If I could "like" this, I would.

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So what do we think about Walt supposedly quiting?

That it is a copout and it makes no sense. Why expand the business and leave it (literally) five minutes later? For a second there I thought he had actually used the rasin and that he wouldn't be working for/with a bigger industry and just that ruthless murder would have made me love the whole deal... but then this little corner of Europe where everyone is a methhead but it's pointless, who cares, at best it'll be a plot device next season. Fail. So he got the perfect employees, got bored, and quit? Renounced power? After a whole narrative of a man craving power? Why? Wasn't that story worth telling?

So Jesse is locked in his desolate house with no phone, a little havest of beer and drugs, a gun in his back pocket and his nightmares about the day that Heisenberg is going to come and kill him.

I did love that. I loved how Jesse was really out and clinging desperately to his high moral ground - like BB was pretending to give to its fans all they ever wanted, only to mock them by showing them what that truly is. Because 'saving Jesse's soul' makes no sense in this story. So I loved that bleak, terrible picture of Jesse, so much.

Also, Walt and Skyler matchingly dressed in negro y azul in a sequence that clearly shows that money is worthless, accomplishes nothing, does nothing, can nothing. And that is what the story was always about. Must we really play by the rules of our game to preserve a society that is only measured in money? Is it worth it? So I loved that - the exposure of money in such an obscene way; the clothes (so many call-backs to the most iconic episodes); and the fact that it felt to me like the show was mocking the wider audience by exposting the horros of a free!Jesse while catering soly to me: giving me the only thing I've truly really wanted.

Hank has found out.

I still can't believe it.

ALL I ever wanted. So I can't even complain (much) about the out-of-the-blue, unexplained, so un-understandable you need a poll,'I'm out'. Oh, and on that poll: I'll have to cling to the last one or I'll be the one quitting. Which I can't. Because Hank fucking Schrader fucking knowsssss!!!!!!!

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frenchani.livejournal.com

It makes a lot of sense. Walt got his "fuel" from his need to beat things, to overcome obstacles. But now that he has succeeded, now that he's got his empire, it's just cook and ship. Besides he has more money than he could spend in ten lifetimes but actually very little time left (it's obvious from the many clues in the episode that the cancer is back and Walt knows it) and not much fun in doing the job anymore without his favourite student (hence the nostalgic talk about the RV days). Quitting and trying to enjoy some "normal" family time before "checking out" seems better than just running an organization alone.

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Well, I imagine it is a matter of personal interpretation. It makes a lot of sense for you. it doesn't for me. For me, Walt deciding now that he wants a normal life before dying is - at least - a turn of events that deserves better storytelling than implying that things happened off-scene, motivations included. Are his new associates happy that he is no longer cooking? is Todd cooking for him? He said 'out' and everyone said 'okay'? The whole season (I refuse to call it half-season because this is not game of thrones, and no season last more than a year) has been about Walt refusing to take the money and live a normal life - so what changed? He won? But wasn't that how S4 ended, literally? What is the point of taking down Fring's empire, then built his own, then immediately quit it?

Just he did 'cause he can is a great explanation, as it actually explains all Walt does - but we actually did not get even that.

Waiting to die in peace is a lovely idea - but it directly and explicitly contradicts what, in my view, this story has always been about: Walt refusing to stay still, sit tight and take it, and reacting by simply doing his will, executing his will to power to the extreme in a desperate situation that clearly exposed how powerless he was/had been so far. Walt is a clear ubermensch-type character, in my opinion, and the narrative has always been his journey to conquer power and do his will. It wasn't moeny and it wasn't meth: it was power. So yes, beating things and overcoming obstacles is indeed imposing his power. For me, the best part of BB has always been seeing Walt controlling all the other characters' actions as reactions as a playwright-character, but I can see him reaching a point when his work is done, as Iago's. That's always been my reading of it/him. As I said, a matter of personal interpretation. I am not saying that his deciding that his work is done now and that he is okay with stepping back is not a direction the story couldn't have taken, but such decision for a character as Walt, who is defined by his power lust, should take actual writing and showing, and not off-screen implications. What made him change his mind? He was never doing it for the money, not since he became Heisenberg. In fact, being out implies letting go of his whole Heisenberg persona (one might argue, undoing a whole metamorphosis, backwards, just like that, in thirty seconds of storytelling), the building and rising of which has been the whole of Walt's narrative. Is he Walt the normal guy living a normal life again? He is no longer Heisenberg? Is Heisenberg gone just like this after so long getting to know him? Kinda choppy and awkward, in my opinion.

But as this is not the ending, I do have my hopes. Either he is lying, or deluding himself in a moment of temporary weakness. I just wished they hadn't fucked it with the kingship analogy. Some things, if you're reading this, Fal, you know, I simply do not forgive. The Joff would have never. Quit kingship! It'd be funny if it were actually possible... Anyway - it could had made sense, I think. If only they had bothered telling that story. Even if it wouldn't be my preferred ending, Walt stepping down, if it had been an actual narrative, it might have worked. As it was in the episode, in my mind it was simply a clumsy, rushed set-up so the final cliffhanger would hit harder. Like this is Lost or something, and we need cliffhangers, and how it ends actually matters. Disappointed.

I also don't get why the cancer being back would be a reason to back off (yes, it was obvious for me too). If anything, it should have made Heisenberg kick harder, and fueled Walt's will to power - after all, the cancer was always the catalyst. Why go back to a life of quiet, unhappy, frustrated and unfair normalcy? As I said, though, this is only my personal opinion, based on my personal interpretation of the story. I've always been more ready to root against the society that Walt was being detrimental to, than against Walt. So for me, watching Walt un-break bad as an afterthought, after so much effort into seeing him break bad, well, it was really disappointing. But it was disappointing now - I still hope it'll be better now that Hank has been proven as the absolute boss he is.

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Wasn't that story worth telling?

I agree. A montage can't tell the story of Walt suddenly abandoning his season, if not series, long goal. Bored or not. Accomplished or not. Ridiculously rich or not. Cancer or not. I thought Walt was in the Empire building business? Seeing a pile of money or an RV or an MRI report is not enough for me to believe he has had a change of heart. I totally thought he was telling Skylar what she wanted to hear when he said he was done. I hope there is more to the story, otherwise that short cut is very disappointing. On top of the characterization backtracking, it leaves too many loose ends in the plot in terms of walking away from a business where you don't get to retire. Sure, they might get to this next season, when Walt has to deal with his own version of legacy costs, but in the meantime, is his hubris so great he can imagine he is just done? At the very least I needed to see, not be told, that Walt made this decision.

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On top of the characterization backtracking, it leaves too many loose ends in the plot in terms of walking away from a business where you don't get to retire.

Exactly! Most importantly because, as I've been annoying complaining, the biggest part of S5 has been about seeing that killing the king, or beheading Ned Stark, as Fal explained to me, does not immediately make their realm disappear: we had to see, painstakingly at times, how after Gus 'retired', many things, big and huge, had to be taken care of. So just leaving doesn't seem that simple, even if overlooking how it turns around the entire narrative so far. They had to rob a train and killed a child and get a plot-device-Todd character with contacts in prison who just happened to work in Vámonos, only to open a window through which Jesse and Walt could live and to some extents, both exits failed. So having Walt leaving this huge scheme with planes flying over the ocean to some random little European country just like that... also, why even bring that up? Wasn't he already in full control when he decided to go multinational? So yes, the more I think about it, the more I think there's more than we know. I don't think BB should retort to witholding information from the audience, but at this point I'd rather have that than a short cut that seems to undo the main character's whole journey and also completley disregard everything we know about the world he has been living in and, in fact, getting to govern.

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frenchani.livejournal.com

Not immediately. About three months have passed which is A LOT considering that the 4 previous seasons with all that happened to Walt took place within only 12 months. And we had several key scenes setting up Walt's decision, during the episode, pointing out that he wasn't satisfied, that he wasn't rejoicing.

And Walt only decided to quit after the hospital session. It was the proverbial last straw. What changed is that his cancer is no longer in remission. Cancer was a catalyst at first, but the return of the cancer isn't the same as a first diagnosis. To my understanding, people who have fought and overcome it once, don't react the same way when it's back...

There's nothing left to conquer now and I think that not wanting to die alone, but wanting to live a certain illusion of family happiness(at least having his children back), and wanting to finally give something to the people he still cares about – in his mind his decision of quitting allowed Junior to have back a normal life at home with his parents, Skyler to have her children back, Hank to have a respite from "chasing monsters" – is a human reaction, and for all his flaws and despicable actions I've always considered Walt as a human being first and foremost. He is not an evil creature, nor is he a cartoonish villain. He is an unlikeable yet complex man. The irony being that it's precisely when Walter isn't behaving like a reckless and nasty criminal, and is actually rather "generous", that Hank finds out the truth.

I guess I just don't see Walter the way you do. He is not a Gus Fring, quiet and discrete and content to run his business. And I don't think he would have been as good as Elliott at running Grey Matter either, hadn't he left the company. Yes Walt wanted to be king, to get a sort of revenge, but he isn't fit to be king.

Now Walt deciding that he's out doesn't mean, of course, that Lydia or Declan's crew will accept the situation. They haven't decided to quit, they need a cook, the new market demands it, and they know there's another one who can make the same product (I mean Jesse, not Todd).

Hey there are still 8 episodes left!

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Yes, I agree it has to do with different interpretations of Walt's character. I don't see him as human, but as uber-human, and I don't find his actions despicable insofar as, as I see it, the whole point of his character is that morals don't apply), or think he ever acts recklessly. And I guess that precisely because I see him as uber-human, (not king, because that analogy should never have been used, let alone mixed with that of a chess game) I can't accept him going back to just human, normal-guy human just like that. And hints and a montage that actually is no different than a flash-forward doesn't actually replace storytelling. You said it: it's a long time. Like 108 days on an island and three years later and all falls to pieces because the narrative time no longer holds. Not what happened in the BB finale, of course, but yes, in three months definitely Walt could have reverted back from Heisenberg. Doesn't change the fact that part of the story was never told.

What changed is that his cancer is no longer in remission.

I personally think that directly contradicts his speech about hell last week. The whole point of the story is that he is already condemned, but won't lie down till he is burned. This is Walt lying down - this is Walt doing the opposite of what his narrative has been about for the whole of the series. And the cancer was always there. When it went in remision, it gave him a couple of years. It is perfectly okay that he might change his mind, and decide that now he wants an illusion of family when at the begining of the season he was ready to completely destroy that - but personally I need more than what we got to buy it. For me, this undoes all of Walt's narrative - so if you're going to turn everything upside down, then don't do it off-screen. That's kinda cheating. Kinda Lost.

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so he got the perfect employees, got bored, and quit? Renounced power? After a whole narrative of a man craving power? Why? Wasn't that story worth telling?

I agree that there's got to be more story to tell. Like you say, how can the distribution folks getting filthy rich from Walt's meth empire be okay with Walt quitting on them? I doubt Todd can cook to Walt's standards on his own and even if he could - when has Walt ever been okay with someone else cooking HIS FORMULA without him supervising? Gus knew his empire would stop dead without a cook so if his cook tried to quit he'd drag them back and have them cook at gunpoint.

I actually think Walt being the cook is getting in the way of Walt really being the king. Walt still does all the grunt work and even with his love of chemical perfection, I can believe he got bored of it. Tuco, Gus, Don Eladio - these guys sat on their thrones and gave out orders. Walt still has to get in his yellow hazmat suit and slave away.

Either he is lying, or deluding himself in a moment of temporary weakness.

Either would work for me. I think Walt's temporary weakness could be nostalgia, which was a big theme of this episode - the fly, the RV, the busted towel dispenser, etc. I see your point that the cancer has always been what propelled Walt to crave power and do his will. But maybe it's different now Walt has experienced power? First cancer scare, Walt breaks back and grabs for that power and danger he never had in his life (and wins). Second cancer scare, Walt decides he wants back the people (and the humanity) he's lost. It could just be a 'grass is always greener' thing.

I can definitely see why you're disappointed. I can't bring myself to compare BB to Lost though. No, no, no. I do think this story will be told in full. Yes, they are holding that story off to create a false sense of security happy ending dovetailed by the bombshell of HANK KNOWING! I just trust them to give me the story later. Walt's quitting will be way more complicated and messy and I don't think he'll surrender power for long. I think Walt just needs something to fight for or someone to fight against. Judging by the Denny's FF, Walt gets what he wants.

That said this is the face that King Joffrey would make over any suggestion of quitting his throne. Joffrey thinks you're a little pussy, Heisenberg.

'saving Jesse's soul' makes no sense in this story. So I loved that bleak, terrible picture of Jesse, so much.

Yeah, I love it too, even though nothing hurts like Jesse hurt. I could never buy into that wishful thinking that if Jesse could just get free of evil manipulative Mr White, then Jesse would run away to New Zealand and get married and have a happy life. So we see it play out - Jesse gets free of Walt and what happens? He locks himself inside his house waiting for the one who knocks to come for him. That's fucked up. Jesse and his horrible t-shirts are not destined for freedom and happiness. Your old comment about Jesse being like Renton - "Choosing not to choose life" - was spot on.

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Everyone's a pussy, though, compared to King Joff. No one can ever compare to his awesomeness.

Yes, after the whole season resenting the ff (I already didn't like it in S2, because having Walt's will crash two planes would have had the same philolosphical repercusions without misleading the audience - yet, I also appreicated that something terrible had indeed happened, just not to Walt's family, but even more horrifying) because everyone got too big a kick off seeing Walt looking so defeated - yet now I'm clinging to that ff because it seems like he is still on. Though the hair makes me think that he might have actually left Heisenberg behind, so here's to hoping he'll shave it back off - it makes no sense to see the whole transformation, if it's actually return trip. It's only fun if it's a true road to perdition. And, what makes this story so breathtaking, for ALL involved. Sigh.

The world feels different and more beautiful now that Hank knows.

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Jesse and his horrible t-shirts are not destined for freedom and happiness

What?? Blasphemy! Jesse's t-shirts are awesome!!:D

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Hehe. I do love Jesse's wardrobe in a 'Man, his clothes are ridiculous but so right for his character' sort of way. But I have noticed that Jesse has been wearing t-shirts with skulls and crucifixes on them for five seasons. That can't be good.

Strangely I don't think Jesse is going to die. Well, I hope he doesn't die...you'd think after loving so many doomed characters I'd learn to brace myself, right? Nooo. Denial is still the best option. That said, I think Jesse will be broken beyond recovery by the end of this. But then, who won't be?

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I'm fully expecting Jesse to die at the end of the show. I think he's already broken beyond recovery - that's what killing Gale did to him (ain't I the optimist).

(please, please show make me wrong!!!)

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Yeah, I agree that Jesse killing Gale was the point of no return for him. Walt didn't force Jesse to break up with Andrea. Jesse basically agrees that no nice girl is ever going to love him if he told her the things he'd done.

I think I would be expecting Jesse to die if Walt wasn't marked for death. I'm sure that (like Laura Roslin) Walt getting a cancer diagnosis in the first episode means he'll die of cancer in the last episode. I think they'll want to end with one of their two male leads still alive.

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I was listening to the special features of season 3 (Inside Breaking Bad). The ones for Half Measures and Full Measures are really interesting and provide a little bit of insight as to why Walt decided to quit in this episode. At the end of season 3, Walt is the employee - he's part of the machine and he doesn't like it. When he kills the two dealers at the end of Half Measures, it unleashed Heisenberg and he re-gained some excitement. If I remember correctly, Vince Gilligan said 'Fear is part of the excitement'. So Walt isn't in the empire business, he's an adrenaline junkie. Remember in the Pilot where he had sex with Skyler just after his adventure. Well, there you go. He quit because he's bored. So much that I'm wondering if he didn't let that book in the bathroom on purpose.

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